To upgrade or not to upgrade Axles

    I am thinking of either upgrading my stock D30 and D35 with gears, shafts, seals, etc.; or getting some custom complete axle assemblies I would get D44s with 4.56 gears, Detroit or Loc-Rite Lockers, Superior shafts, disk brake upgrade for the rear, and crusher diff gaurds. What do you guys think? :shrug:


    Worth the money to get all new assemblies for a DD that only goes on the trails once or twice a month?


    Worth the extra money for D60s for a DD?


    Any other axles I should maybe look at (i.e. Ford 9")?


    Any other component to include in an assembly or a specific one?


    Any place inparticular to get them built?


    This is where i was looking at getting them done Tri-County Gear

    Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.<br />-Frederic Bastiat

    good topic,, i went 44 rear and cherokee XJ hp D30 in front, the price diff between the 60 and 44 new is only $300 as of late so my buddy went 60 and HP30, try http://www.fullcircle4x4.com, Dave is who i recommend...

    A daily driver on the trails (what level?) once or twice a month? It doesn't seem to make sense to put out massive amounts of cash for new axles. My jeep is pretty much for trails only, and I beat the crap out of it.


    My front D30 is modified with: 4.56 gears, superior evolution chromoly axleshafts, aussie locker, Crane diff cover.


    The rear D44 is modified with: 4.56 gears, detroit locker, Tera disk brakes, Crane diff cover.


    My opinion is, consider upgrading the rear to a D44 or 8.8, or do it when you break the D35. Unless you're regularly doing hardcore rides, that should be enough. Put your money into more armor - bumpers, engine skid, gas tank skid, steering box skid, control arm mount skids, heavy duty rockers, trail corners, roll cage, etc.

    I broke a locked D44 rear (detroit locker w/ 4.56:1) ON THE STREET with a bit of an overzealous 1->2 shift with that 5.61:1 nv4500 1st gear. Think ''sub-illegal-speed acceleration contest'' between stoplights with a ford pickup :) :) I know, it was totally stupid in retrospect, but now that I have that D60 rear I am running 36s... err wait I forgot, upgrading to a 44 front is a waste of money for me and a custom built 60 front or true HP9 front is going to cost me ~6500 built + more to get parts to fab up a steering solution.


    Sorry, without the sarcasm this time:


    Depending on what you plan to do, a built and trussed 'super 35' rear would be fine at that 33" tire range, could be vulnerable at the 35" range. A 'built' D30 front (chromoly axles, those CTM ujoints, etc...) will do fine at the 33" tire range, could be vulnerable at the 35" tire range.


    A 'super' D44 rear is going to be good through 36", especially if you convert it to full floater and do a 33 spline axle.


    I do not know how well a front D44 will hold up. I'm not sure if you can go with 33 spline inner axles on the rubicon style D44 front (someone please chime in here?) I do know that I was looking at *possibly* building a front 60 with the TJ unitbearing dealio to salvage the 5x4.5 bolt pattern I have on my beadlocks and the best he could do for me were 30 spline outers, but I was told that would hold up to 36's if I were to bring spare outers on the unlikely chance that I broke an outer...


    A 35+ spline D60 or HP9 rear/front is going to carry you past 37's up into the low 40's for severe offroad use, but even they start to give out after that.


    And from personal experience, having a D60 rear with a D30 front is basically useless :) Bring a trailer and a towrig, because running a real 36" tire with that config is a bit nutty and you should expect to snap a u-joint or 7 :0 If you learn anything that I might find useful for my situation besides shortening a F350 d60 front and shaving it or paying to have a front D60 axle built, please do share :)


    I've been collecting parts for my 8.8 slowly. I figure after its installed I'll have about $1000 into parts and labor. I'm going 410's, Electric Locker, and disk brakes.


    I'll let you know after its in how I like it. I know my drums now are not stopping me the way they should with 35's :peace:

    Former V.P. (2006-2007)
    V.P. of Jeeps for Joy (2004-2010)
    President of Jeeps for Joy (2010-2012)
    Beater Build Winning Driver (2009)

    Quote from "Wolverine"

    I've been collecting parts for my 8.8 slowly. I figure after its installed I'll have about $1000 into parts and labor. I'm going 410's, Electric Locker, and disk brakes.


    I'll let you know after its in how I like it. I know my drums now are not stopping me the way they should with 35's :peace:


    8.8's are solid! I used one in my 1979 mustang (1st year, 3rd gen) with about a 375hp 302 + a 200 horse shot with mickey thompson street slicks that ran very low 11's. Had 4.11's and a posi. Granted, the types of stress you experience on a track vs. the types of stress you experience on the trail are a lot different, I can imagine that the 8.8 is a suitable solution for up to and including 36" tires...


    Please do keep us up to date on what you decide, this is a very interesting topic to me.


    Remember btw, the 8.8 is NOT a high pinion and if you plan on having much more than 4.5" of lift, you're going to want that flexibility with the rear driveline and belly up skid etc... So you are sacrificing that. After doing a bit more reading, a HP44 rear is not really all that great of an idea because that ring gear really becomes 'the weakest link' riding in reverse of its normal rotation. It would actually be weaker than a stock TJ dana 44. When I broke my 44, it was the axles though and not the R&P. Granted, after breaking the axle on the road, the resultant bits and pieces while the vehicle was still rolling had its way with the ring and pinion, but the original breakage was at the splines right at the carrier.


    Anyway, just more food for thought... I'm confident that a properly built HP44 rear (33 spline axles, full floater kit, etc...) would survive up through 35" tires and mabye even 36" tires... You just wouldnt want to run much over a 4.11 rear gear as the pinion starts getting smaller and smaller rather quickly lower than 4.11's.


    Also, if you're looking at a HP9 rear, there's two styles. A true HP9 w/ 3rd member and R&P from a 9" and then the currie HP9 with the 8.8 ring and pinion... The true HP9 is going to be stronger...


    --Randall

    I think I am going to get an entire rear and then just upgrade the front. I think I am going to get a D44 with chromoly shatfs, 4.56 gears, and ARB. Then I will just upgrade the front with chromoly shafts, seals, bearings, 4.56 gears, and either a lunchbox or ARB. It depends on what I can afford at that time... Any other ideas??

    Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.<br />-Frederic Bastiat

    Quote from "TheMistaken"

    I think I am going to get an entire rear and then just upgrade the front. I think I am going to get a D44 with chromoly shatfs, 4.56 gears, and ARB. Then I will just upgrade the front with chromoly shafts, seals, bearings, 4.56 gears, and either a lunchbox or ARB. It depends on what I can afford at that time... Any other ideas??


    For the rear thats exactly what i did, but i got 33 spline and discs, for the front i am still running stock shafts with 760 joints..

    I am doing the same with the 33 spline and disks... As long as the wife lets me and we can afford it lol... How much more was it with the disk brake upgrade?

    Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.<br />-Frederic Bastiat

    There are plenty of people who successfully run 35's and even 37's on the HP 30/Dana 44 combo. The key to minimizing breakage is keeping your wheel and tire combo as light as possible. A Properly built High Pinion 30 is a relatively strong axle ,if you do not unnecesarily beat on it. The weak points after you upgrade the shafts and carrier are the ball joints. The rear 44 does rather well in its stock form, trussing the housing and adding aftermarket 30 spline shafts make it comporable to the strength of the front axle. I have always seen it uneccesary to run 33 spline shafts in the rear as broken stock 44 shafts are not very common, let alone alloy 30 spline shafts.


    One last point is at all costs avoid a hi-pinion rear axle. Unless you are running 10" of lift hi-pinions are unnecessary as they run on the weak side of the gears in the rear. The exception is the hi-9 but that is a different beast all together..

    The guys that i was talking to about building me my rear said that they put a 5 degree angle on them. Would that be considered HP?

    Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.<br />-Frederic Bastiat

    Quote from "turtle"

    There are plenty of people who successfully run 35's and even 37's on the HP 30/Dana 44 combo. The key to minimizing breakage is keeping your wheel and tire combo as light as possible. A Properly built High Pinion 30 is a relatively strong axle ,if you do not unnecesarily beat on it. The weak points after you upgrade the shafts and carrier are the ball joints. The rear 44 does rather well in its stock form, trussing the housing and adding aftermarket 30 spline shafts make it comporable to the strength of the front axle. I have always seen it uneccesary to run 33 spline shafts in the rear as broken stock 44 shafts are not very common, let alone alloy 30 spline shafts.


    One last point is at all costs avoid a hi-pinion rear axle. Unless you are running 10" of lift hi-pinions are unnecessary as they run on the weak side of the gears in the rear. The exception is the hi-9 but that is a different beast all together..


    I don't mean to flame, but are you on DRUGS?


    As stated, I broke a Dana 44 rear axle w/ detroit locker and 4.56:1 gears on the STREET... in HIGH RANGE RWD. I have NO engine mods (except a K&N Air Filter) and only the trans/tcase mod. Sure, if I drove my jeep like as if I were a 90 year old Grandpa, that would have never happened - but lets be reasonable here. Men who drive jeeps can also have a bit of an ego as well. As a result, there are times when jeep drivers CAN and WILL goose the throttle. If I can break a stock D44 axle at the carrier on concrete, I could *definetly* break one on rocks in low range...


    In addition, if I had a LOW pinion 44 on my rig, there'd be NO way that I'd even be able to drive down the road due to SEVERE driveline angle... and I only have 5.5" of lift + the basic belly up on the rubicon express long arm lift.


    Please do not say stuff that is grossly incorrect before reading the REAL LIFE TESTIMONIALS of previous posts.


    Sure, what you say *may* be true, but again it really depends on driving style. Your comments indicate that the people with 37's on dana 30's and dana 44's you have seen perhaps drive thier jeeps very lightly and do not take trails that even require 37's...


    Take a TJ with 37's and a D30/D44 onto a trail like the undertaker used to be at paragon and watch what happens :p


    --Randall

    Quote from "turtle"

    There are plenty of people who successfully run 35's and even 37's on the HP 30/Dana 44 combo. The key to minimizing breakage is keeping your wheel and tire combo as light as possible. A Properly built High Pinion 30 is a relatively strong axle ,if you do not unnecesarily beat on it. The weak points after you upgrade the shafts and carrier are the ball joints. The rear 44 does rather well in its stock form, trussing the housing and adding aftermarket 30 spline shafts make it comporable to the strength of the front axle. I have always seen it uneccesary to run 33 spline shafts in the rear as broken stock 44 shafts are not very common, let alone alloy 30 spline shafts.


    One last point is at all costs avoid a hi-pinion rear axle. Unless you are running 10" of lift hi-pinions are unnecessary as they run on the weak side of the gears in the rear. The exception is the hi-9 but that is a different beast all together..


    If you see a 30 spline 44 shaft next to a 33 spline 44 shaft then you might think differently, they are almost the same size as a stock 60 shaft that we had here... i do agree in a way because if i break no one usually has a spare 33 spline laying around im hosed... :doh:

    Quote from "Randallman"

    Take a TJ with 37's and a D30/D44 onto a trail like the undertaker used to be at paragon and watch what happens :p


    --Randall


    Ummm I do and I have, it is all in how you drive. REal world testimonials come from my wheeling group. We have 6 rigs that run HP dana 30/44 or 8.8 with 35's and bigger, guess what we have only once broken a built dana 30 and one 44 but that was a function of a locker grenading itself for unkown reasons. I have done alot of axle work myself, in that I set up the gears myself break down the axles myself and I have a rather fair idea from my own experiences as what does and does not work. der

    i'm working on a pair of ford axles HP 44 front 60 rear
    They should allow me to run blacks on 36" tires even with stock axles.

    Quote from "Randallman"


    In addition, if I had a LOW pinion 44 on my rig, there'd be NO way that I'd even be able to drive down the road due to SEVERE driveline angle... and I only have 5.5" of lift + the basic belly up on the rubicon express long arm lift.


    --Randall


    I will say it and stand by it, a high pinion axle in the rear is not worth a damn, you are running on the wrong side of the gears unnecessarily, if you can't set a low pinion axle up in the rear then you may want to considering lowering the vehicle, I know plenty of people who run 5.5" springs with a low pinion rear 60 and not one of them has oiling problems or vibes in the rear..... Problems with oiling generally occur with ford 9's as they have a very low pinion which is why the hi-9 is preferred when running a 9" in the rear of a TJ

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