So I found out today that my TJ needs new rear upper adjustable control arms because the Daystar pieces of crap are shot. I was told by Hoak's 4x4 that I should stay away from arms with flex joints because they wear out fast? I thought flex joints were a good thing. He recommended that I buy BDS adjustable arms that have regular bushing ends.
So, I'm looking for advice on whether or not to get the BDS arms. If not, then which should I go with? Thanks! 
So I found out today that my TJ needs new rear upper adjustable control arms because the Daystar pieces of crap are shot. I was told by Hoak's 4x4 that I should stay away from arms with flex joints because they wear out fast? I thought flex joints were a good thing. He recommended that I buy BDS adjustable arms that have regular bushing ends.
So, I'm looking for advice on whether or not to get the BDS arms. If not, then which should I go with? Thanks!
yes, the flex joints are a good thing if you are flexing your suspension a lot. when your axle droops on one side, the control arms on that side don't just drop down, but they want to twist outwards at the same time. a heim joint allows this to happen without binding. in my experience, the bushings in the heim joints do wear out and need replacement somewhat more frequently. if i didn't wheel my rig a lot, i would not get flex joints.
as far as brand, i get my BDS stuff from Hoak's. IMO, the quality of BDS stuff is excellent. and their lifetime parts warranty can't be beat - return a broken or worn part, it is replaced, period, no questions asked.
(except, of course, for wear items like bushings 
).
just my $.02
My thoughts:
Johnny or cartridge type joints should last a fairly long time.
If you like to play in the mud I would stick with rubber bushings.
If your Jeep is super flexy and you wheel a lot, the cartridge joints may actually last longer than arms with just rubber bushings as the arm is more free to rotate.
John mentioned heim joints, I wouldn't use a heim joint on any part of a Jeep that is driven on the street.
What exactly is wrong with your Daystar arms ? If the bushings are shot, they can be replaced.
John mentioned heim joints, I wouldn't use a heim joint on any part of a Jeep that is driven on the street.
My Full Traction arms use heims on the axle side LCA's and they have been bulletproof. 
As mentioned, it comes down to how you use it. I was going through rubber bushings every third trail ride until I went with the cartridge style joints.
They transfer a little more vibration but flex better and I can always tighten them up if they loosen.
In that application where they are in double shear, I would feel better about them.
What scares me is when they are used for steering in single shear. If the ball separates from the housing you are done.
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My thoughts:
Johnny or cartridge type joints should last a fairly long time.
If you like to play in the mud I would stick with rubber bushings.
If your Jeep is super flexy and you wheel a lot, the cartridge joints may actually last longer than arms with just rubber bushings as the arm is more free to rotate.
John mentioned heim joints, I wouldn't use a heim joint on any part of a Jeep that is driven on the street.
What exactly is wrong with your Daystar arms ? If the bushings are shot, they can be replaced.
I don't have time to wheel/don't know where to wheel around here so the Jeep is streeted right now. They said that the threads are messed up and they are pulling in and out of themselves. I took it in because I was having a constant clunking noise that I couldn't track down. The bushings on my lowers are shot (he said I can just put new bushings in those) and the uppers need to be replaced due to the bad threads. They tightened it all up and I had no clunk on the 15 minute ride back to my apartment, but that's just temporary until I can afford the $500 he quoted to have it all fixed up properly.
I just want to get the right upper arms and not have to go replacing entire units again. Bushings I can deal with.
Also, what is a cartridge joint? I know what a Johnny Joint is.
Same thing, Johnny Joint is Currie's trademark name for their cartridge joints.
Same thing, Johnny Joint is Currie's trademark name for their cartridge joints.
Thanks Keith.
As far as mostly street driving, would I be better off just using arms that utilize regular bushings on each end? Or should I go with an arm that has a Johnny joint? Price isn't an issue, I just want something that will last. The Daystar arms have only been on my Jeep for about 8,000 miles if that. This Jeep is by far not a daily driver.
In that application where they are in double shear, I would feel better about them.
What scares me is when they are used for steering in single shear. If the ball separates from the housing you are done.
I assumed that is what you were referring too but when you said "any part", it threw me off. In double shear, a failure wouldn't be catastrophic. Not to mention I run some massive heims for the application.
Klarissa, the uppers should last you a long time so I wouldn't over think them. IMO, lowers are where you need to get the good stuff. I'm really surprised you only got 8000 miles out of the Daystars. :-\
Also, what is a cartridge joint? I know what a Johnny Joint is.
Here is a video from Ballistic.
[youtube]
EDIT: See how they can be tightened down?
Thanks Bill. I may just go with the BDS arms then. He quoted me a price cheaper than retail on those and he seemed to think they would be best for my Jeep. I just wanted a few other opinions before I put an arm on there that only lasts me another 8,000 miles. 
Just to throw another hat in the ring, JKS control arms have a pretty good rep.
They use bushings at both ends and the rod is allowed to rotate to give the added flex.
FWIW if you do end up with a cartridge style joint go with an adjustable style like the ballistic joint...then when they do get loose you can retighten/lube and are good to go. The johnny joints fit together and use a circlip to hold the assembly in place. Being non-adjustable once the bushing wears and/or collapses some you have to replace rather than tighten it to take up the slack.
I can say that I wore out a hell of alot more 'factory' rubber bushings on my Clayton setup than I did Johnny Joints. In the 5yrs I ran it I replaced the rubber bushings 3 times and only ever had to rebuild 2 of the johnnies (the smaller front units)
--Ian
FWIW if you do end up with a cartridge style joint go with an adjustable style like the ballistic joint...then when they do get loose you can retighten/lube and are good to go. The johnny joints fit together and use a circlip to hold the assembly in place. Being non-adjustable once the bushing wears and/or collapses some you have to replace rather than tighten it to take up the slack.
I can say that I wore out a hell of alot more 'factory' rubber bushings on my Clayton setup than I did Johnny Joints. In the 5yrs I ran it I replaced the rubber bushings 3 times and only ever had to rebuild 2 of the johnnies (the smaller front units)
--Ian
Ian, thanks for the info. Does Ballistic Fab make the ballistic joint you speak of?
Ian, thanks for the info. Does Ballistic Fab make the ballistic joint you speak of?
Looks pretty much identical to the Rubicon Express joint.
RE stuff might be a little hard to get right now though. 
I am not a big fan of RE other than their springs. I hope when they restructure or whatever they are doing their quality improves.
I've been very happy with their control arms and track bars, (and springs).
I've been very happy with their control arms and track bars, (and springs).
No offense meant. 
I'm pretty sure most people have been pretty happy with their stuff, but some of the things I've seen and experienced myself with their products turned me off to them quite a bit.
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