Oh my god, not another Death Wobble thread! NO! NO! NOOO!!!

    Lol... .. My brain is still stuck in TJ land. But id still check and make sure things are in good shape. Saggy springs, spring bushings etc....

    2000 Sahara, All custom...
    2000 Cherokee Police package, Beater....


    I may be slowest and the stupidest

    Quote from deadfeat


    I blame these guys





    I've been using Weebles as ball joints. They are so much cuter than OEM. I shouldn't be doing that? You're saying they are to blame? They are just too damn cute to be guilty of anything so evil as DW.

    ~ JD
    * WARNING - The above post may contain trace elements of biting sarcasm. Those with known sensitivities should avoid staring directly at it.

    Quote from altierior



    I've been using Weebles as ball joints. They are so much cuter than OEM. I shouldn't be doing that? You're saying they are to blame? They are just too damn cute to be guilty of anything so evil as DW.


    Weebles wobble / Jeeps Wobble ... coincidence? I think not.

    Nobody belongs anywhere, nobody exists on purpose, everybody's going to die. Have a beer.


    Jeeps Owned... 89YJ, 81CJ-8, 99XJ, 93XJ, 00WJ, 05LJ, 22Bronco Badlands !

    New track bar bushings failed to correct problem. The old bushings are in perfect shape, but we put the new ones in anyway.

    ANOTHER FAIL. :bang:

    ~ JD
    * WARNING - The above post may contain trace elements of biting sarcasm. Those with known sensitivities should avoid staring directly at it.

    Quote from astape

    I doubt brakes are an issue but any thing is possible.

    [font=Verdana]


    I guess we'll try calipers. :shrug: I think I have a spare set of calipers in my garage, but I don't have another set of extended brake lines. I guess if the brake lines are also suspect, I can throw stock lines on there since I'm not flexing it out.


    It makes no sense to me that it could be brakes, but since two people have independently mentioned calipers- and we are completely out of ideas...


    Aaron, if this doesn't work, I'm putting it on my trailer and bringing it to you. :wavey:

    ~ JD
    * WARNING - The above post may contain trace elements of biting sarcasm. Those with known sensitivities should avoid staring directly at it.

    Any chance you can sum up everything you have done to it in one post? It would be easier to think of what may have been missed if everything thats been ruled out is listed together, that and I dont feel like skimming through 4 pages. :mrgreen:

    Quote from Tonka


    [size=9pt]Any chance you can sum up everything you have done to it in one post? It would be easier to think of what may have been missed if everything thats been ruled out is listed together, that and I dont feel like skimming through 4 pages. [/size] :mrgreen:


    [size=9pt]It was mostly detailed in the first two posts in this thread:[/size]




    [size=9pt]Beyond that: [/size]


      [li][size=9pt]Swapped out the steering box.[/size][/li]
      [li][size=9pt]Replaced track bar bushings. [/size][/li]

    ~ JD
    * WARNING - The above post may contain trace elements of biting sarcasm. Those with known sensitivities should avoid staring directly at it.

    Edited once, last by altierior ().

    What's your current pinion angle? Did swapping the 5" springs for 3" + spacers change the front height at all? That'll affect your pinion angle as well as your required trackbar length. I know you just swapped the trackbar bushings but maybe the length isn't correct now if the height has changed. That incorrect trackbar length combined with a different height (which would affect your pinion angle) could be enough to throw a wobble at you. Also, are you certain that the axle is nice and square? Meaning, you may have equally-lengthed control arms, but if a bracket isn't perfectly welded (or maybe a little tweaked) it can affect your wheelbase/pinion angle/caster angle as well. I've had good luck checking that by using a string from opposite corners like this: X


    I'm sure you've looked at all of this but I'm just trying to come up with ideas. :shrug:

    Whats your caster set at? Whats your toe set at? How close to parrallel is your drag link and track bar? x2 on what quadna said, measure your wheelbase on each side, Is it equal? Also, what from the list was replaced and what was just checked and determined to be ok? Im not doubting you, just saying the list is unclear based on (where nessisary) Ive deemed parts to be ok and later found out that I was wrong when they where finally replaced.

    Quote from quadna


    What's your current pinion angle? Did swapping the 5" springs for 3" + spacers change the front height at all? That'll affect your pinion angle as well as your required trackbar length. I know you just swapped the trackbar bushings but maybe the length isn't correct now if the height has changed. That incorrect trackbar length combined with a different height (which would affect your pinion angle) could be enough to throw a wobble at you.



    I understand what you are saying about the trackbar length and pinion angle. The Jeep's ride height may have changed to a minimal extent. I think the spacers are 1.5", so the Jeep would have gone from 5" to 4.5", which should be practically insignificant. And since the Jeep was sitting a little lower on the passenger side - I don't know why, maybe the one spring was sagging - the 3" plus 1.5" probably only lowered the driver side by .5", thereby leveling the front end. I don't recall my pinion angle, because it's been a few years since we set it up.


    I am hesitant to put blame on the resultant pinion angle and trackbar length after the spring swap, because we swapped the springs because of the Death Wobble - i.e., I can't blame bad pinion angle or trackbar length for DW that was happening before the change.

    ~ JD
    * WARNING - The above post may contain trace elements of biting sarcasm. Those with known sensitivities should avoid staring directly at it.

    Quote from quadna


    Also, are you certain that the axle is nice and square? Meaning, you may have equally-lengthed control arms, but if a bracket isn't perfectly welded (or maybe a little tweaked) it can affect your wheelbase/pinion angle/caster angle as well. I've had good luck checking that by using a string from opposite corners like this: X



    Quote from Tonka


    Whats your caster set at? Whats your toe set at? x2 on what quadna said, measure your wheelbase on each side, Is it equal?



    I don't know the actual numbers, but I was in the shop when the XJ was on the alignment rack, and the computer was reading caster and camber in spec. The toe just very slightly off, but the alignment guy said that it was within the acceptable margin.

    In fact, it was the alignment guy who told me that the alignment was in no way the problem, and that he had solved Death Wobble on a Liberty with new brake calipers and lines. I thought he was out of his mind with the brakes. Besides, aren't Libbies IFS? That's a whole different animal.

    ~ JD
    * WARNING - The above post may contain trace elements of biting sarcasm. Those with known sensitivities should avoid staring directly at it.

    Quote from Tonka


    Also, what from the list was replaced and what was just checked and determined to be ok? Im not doubting you, just saying the list is unclear based on (where nessisary) Ive deemed parts to be ok and later found out that I was wrong when they where finally replaced.





    Beyond that:
    [list type=disc]
    [li][size=9pt]Swapped out the steering box. [/size][size=9pt](No further action)[/size][/li]
    [li][size=9pt]Replaced track bar bushings. [/size][size=9pt](No further action)[/size][/li]
    [/list]

    ~ JD
    * WARNING - The above post may contain trace elements of biting sarcasm. Those with known sensitivities should avoid staring directly at it.

    Edited once, last by altierior ().

    Reason I ask Is because a bad caster can make it easier for something to instigate dw. It wouldn't be the root cause but if your geometry is off it makes it easier for worn parts to start the dw. You can get an angle finder and place it on the flat portion of the top of the knuckle to get your caster angle. I actually do it with an angle finder app on my iphone. Also the track bar and drag link not being parallel will cause bump steer wich can initiate dw. I battled dw last year for awhile and getting my angles right helped to keep it at bay while hunting down the other issues. Also toeing out 1/8 will help. So far I've had it from bad lower control arm bushings, a bad hub bearing, a loose pitman arm and to much of an angle between my drag link and track bar.

    I guess its time to try the brakes then... :-\ Only other I can think of is maybe a bent outer knuckle... I would want to put the front axle up on jack stands, put the heaviest tire/wheel combo you have on it (tires off the ground), then just start checking every last joint. Probably covered already, but what type of steering is on it? Is it an inverted T where the tie rod could actually be twisting, adding more play in the steering?

    Quote from Andy in Pa.


    Probably covered already, but what type of steering is on it? Is it an inverted T where the tie rod could actually be twisting, adding more play in the steering?



    Funny you should ask. I guess I need to jog your memory here...



    Look familiar?
    http://www.rustysoffroad.com/j…j-tie-rod-conversion.html



    The tie-rod roll or flop is a known issue with the inverted-T steering. Yes, mine has play in the tie-rod. But it always has (ever since you traded it to me for a box of steaks ;) ). It made driving a little sloppy and definitely took some getting used to and its own skill-set for driving it on the road. But for five years or so, I ran this set-up on the roads and highways. My prior bouts with Death Wobble were always related to either track bar issues or bushings or hubs, etc... The tie-rod set-up is no different now than it was prior to this current bout of Death Wobble.


    The twisting of the tie-rod never caused Death Wobble before, so I don't see how it suddenly could be the culprit. But I haven't ruled it out. I have used these in the past to alleviate some of the tie-rod roll:



    but they would only last a few months. http://www.jcroffroad.com/product/STR/PLYBSH.html


    But thanks for bringing this up. It jogged my memory - I forgot that I had seen a new, ostensibly more durable version of these bushings not yet available for sale. So your post reminded me - it took some searching for me to find the source again.


    http://www.polyperformance.com…nd-Dust-Boot-p-31658.html


    I just ordered a pair. It seems to me that the problem would more likely be the tie-rod roll than the brakes.

    ~ JD
    * WARNING - The above post may contain trace elements of biting sarcasm. Those with known sensitivities should avoid staring directly at it.

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