Why do you need a radiator bar?

Believe it or not, the hill he went up on was only about 5 feet high. The last few feet of it were straight up. It was the bonus line for obstacle 11. I heard he got up but did a rear wheel stand at the top and after a few seconds of standing straight up the front gradually fell backwards and flopped over.

Quote from "bmf24"

Aaron will be posting later on why you should get a real cage instead of a sport cage like the poision spyder, ect.

You have seen how many poison spyder cages fail? If you weld tube to tube how is a sport cage any different than a full cage?

Everyone and their grandmother has heard of them failing. There is only 1 documented case of it failing and that was from improper installation. Yes a full cage is better but how many people actually are running trails that a full cage will be more beneficial than a sport cage?? how many people on this board are running their rigs in comps?? Where you have a much much higher chance of continually rolling the vehicle. Plus there are huge differences in sports cages, what is the difference between a full cage and a weld in sport cage with tube to the floor. What is the difference between a full cage and a bolt on/weld in that goes all the way to the tub and ties to the frame? Their is way way way way too much its bad with no reasons or I heard it from my brothers uncle that one failed once 2 years ago. No one has ever put up any pictures of catastrophic failure.

Any cage is better than just a roll bar. Most are probably good for one "GOOD" roll. The thing is, people will spend $900 or more for a winch that they will probably never use (since everyone uses tow straps anyway) but scoff at the idea of spending the money for a cage that can take a heavy roll over. But like Turtle said, most people don't do HARD CORE off roading or competition so.....

I know of 2 well documented sport cages that saved peoples lives

The lady Tracy who rolled her jeep numerous times in Moab with a palty TBT cage. The video is on the TBT website. The *AHEM* sportcage allowed her to walk out of that vehicle with barely a scratch.

And then there is the Owner of Fabtech who swears that his life was saved by a bolt on Rockhard cage.
[size=24px]GASP!!![/size]

aarons roll cage is however the stock cage from the seats back. The front of his cage and seat brackets were the only add ons.

Chris

That accident is not typical of what will occur on a trail as we are not driving 60mph. Any type of additional support, especially at the windshield and centerbar would have helped out alot.

The sport cages are designed for protecting the occupants first and the jeep is a secondary thought so I will agree with you on that.

They can however sustain numerous rolls in a single incident while maintaining their integrity to the point of protecting the passengers
The following link is for the benefit of those who have never seen it.
Clickety Click
This woman's life was saved by a sport cage.

Ive seen full cages crumple just as bad as the example given by bmf24. Each situation is different so it is difficult to group everything as a single type and it can be debated till everyone is blue in the face.

The important thing to get out of this discussion is the following
The stock cage has been proven to be inadequate.
It should be strengthened by something else at a bare minimum

There's a big difference between flopping it on it's side and rolling down a hill. For the average person, a stock roll bar will be fine on the trail as long as they aren't getting into a severe situation. Of course, how can you tell when you AREN'T going to be put in a severe situation?

I would take any cage (including a bolt in) over nothing. The only reason I have a cage in mine is because I bought the front hoop from a friend for cheap.

Wow...this is getting a little out of hand. Come on guys, I think that you'll all agree that a bolt-in/weld-in sportcage is superior to just the stock sportbar (note it is _not_ referred to as a rollbar _anywhere_ by DC) and that a full cage is then a step above both.

IMHO the person needs to weigh the type of wheeling they do and then make a decision on what to do. For 99% of the wheelers in this club I'd say a sportcage would be more than sufficient...the likelihood of rolling is usually pretty low and most of the time would likely involve simply flopping on the side. SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE a sport cage would hold up fine in this instance, in fact my sportbar was undamaged when I flopped and the bar and windshield were supporting the weight of the Jeep (hence the light body damage).

Now like Chris said you shouldn't expect this type of cage to hold up after a roll and it will likely need to be replaced after a single use...that's where the benefit of a full all-out rollcage would benefit, not only can it be designed to provide additional protection it would be less likely to sustain damage in a roll than a sportcage.

All of this is well and good but I think what it comes down to for most people is the $$$$. Having priced all my options I can say that your "normal" sportcage will run ~$400 whereas a full custom cage is in the $1300-1400 range. It's up to the individual to decide what's best for them in terms of cost and protection.

--Ian (who's doing a _full_ cage as he'll try some stupid stuff on the trail)

Quote from "XJHardware"

You mean I'm not protected well enough by the metal roof?

HAHAHAH sorry but no. If you saw what happened to this XJ 2 years ago at NeuROC, you would understand why I am laughing. Per competition rules, the guy had a very well built roll cage.
Next year, he had cut off the roof, all the glass was already shatter and cut alot of his side panels because they did not hold up at all. And as far as NeuROC flops go, his was pretty mild.

DieselCJ
Let us know how you fair if you put your jeep upside down.
You didnt test anythng by parking it on a door.

It has to be welded to the frame. The regular radiator hoops are pretty much just for brush guards and light tree or rock impacts. They will get bent back a little but it protects the body.

The stinger bars are more beneficial as they are made from bigger tubing and will help prevent and end over end roll when descending. They should stick up a little higher than the hood and go out in front a bit. I don't know if there is a general rule of thumb to figure out the angle of the extension or height. When in doubt multiply be pie. Everybody likes pie.

We saw to cases the past weekend where the impact of the stinger actually helped push the vehicle off to the side while preventing the end over end roll from continuing. Aaron's was an end over end roll backwards. His top never touched the ground I'm pretty sure the stinger was one of the first things that hit (it happened so fast). The stinger is attached to the brush guard and pushed the brush guard back about ½" or so. It now interferes with the opening of the hood. The other person was coming off a cliff at a bad angle and when the stinger hit (his back side was already coming over) it pushed the back side off to the side and the Jeep tumbled a few times down the hill and landed back on the wheels. He finished the course but broke the traction bar and rear shock mount.