Debate: Driving On The Beach W/O a Surf Tag

    Quote from blueyedevil

    What DON't you miss... :innocent:


    j/k
    :laughing:


    What I would NOT miss, is if you would stop posting all these idiotic, worthless posts.



    IF ANYONE ELSE FINDS ROB'S CONSTANT POSTING FOR NO REASON OTHER THAN TO POST ANNOYING, PLEASE PM ME.


    YOUR RESPONSES WILL REMAIN CONFIDENTIAL, I PROMISE.

    Quote from tedsbumper


    So because of the actions of a few irresponsible people, we are limited in terms of places for us to wheel our vehicles. I know it's not super-exciting-funzo-offroad-mega-park, but it'd be a nice place for the NCC crew to go try out a new lift or locker once in a while.


    sorry but the beach is not a place for this..


    http://www.destateparks.com/Activities/surffish/surffish.htm


    "Permit-holder must be actively engaged in surf fishing when the vehicle is out on the beach. Appropriate fishing gear must be present - bait, tackle, pole."


    So does this mean that you got your fishing permit to "wheel" on the beach and the fishing is just a means for you to get out their "legally" even though it is breaking the rules?

    I too, am with stupid<br />87XJ&nbsp;(gone), 97 ZJ W 31&quot; MT&#039;s (gone), 04 TJ W 3&quot; procomp springs/ 33&quot; BFG&nbsp; MT&#039;S (gone)<br />87 YJ- SOA - 39.5 Swampers-111&quot; wheel base, 4 link front, Atlas, 14 bolt, Dana 60 and stuff

    So does this mean that you got your fishing permit to "wheel" on the beach and the fishing is just a means for you to get out their "legally" even though it is breaking the rules?




    You bet your ass it is!


    I jump the little dunes and wheel all the time there, crawling down the cliffs and back up again.
    All ever get is a friendly wave from the rangers.


    So will everyone who is like "its illegal, Im a good person and illegal wheelers will rot in hell" Shut the fuck up please!

    Quote

    These are NOT people that tried to sneak out to fish for free.


    That's right, that's my point, Keith! Jesus Christ, Yes I did use the example of them pulling up next to you to fish and not paying the dues you paid. But, I don't think anyone was under the impression that these people intend to surf fish. They are breaking the law twice just by coming on the beach with no tag and no gear. They are more likely to travel into the restricted areas. They are more likely to damage the dunes or enter the nesting areas. They are the ones who are going to limit our access to the beach.


    Oh, and as far as karma is concerned, why would you use karma as a reason to help somebody engage in an illegal activity that may end up costing us by restricting our legal activity? If that's the theory and we just pay it forward, then when you roll up on a drunk stuck in a ditch on the way home, are you going to yank him out so he can continue on his way? What if he goes another couple of miles and kills someone? What if it's someone you know? I know, I know, the drunk driver comparison is a little extreme so don't bother pointing out the obvious. But, it goes to show, when people engage in an illegal activity and helping them out of the situation may serve to hurt you in the end, it's not karma, it's just plain stupid.


    Why help people who are breaking the law and may end up limiting our access to the beach? I've made several points that no one has yet to disprove:


    1. People wheeling on the beach with no permit are more likely to engage in other illegal activities on the beach. Just by not bringing fishing gear and the required vehicle equipment, they've usually violated three laws at once.


    2. If the illegal wheeling on the beach continues at the pace that a member of this club (who disagrees with my point) claims it is, the parks will start to take more measures to monitor and regulate beach access.


    3. Helping these people out of a jam wastes your time and your gas (no matter how little) and could potentially damage your vehicle or recovery equipment. Yes, the same thing could happen helping out a vehicle with a beach tag, but at least they paid their dues just like the rest of us and they're there legally.


    4. If the state parks have to add more personel to monitor and regulate access, they will increase our permit fees to cover the costs of the personel.


    5. Helping these people out of a jam rather than informing the park rangers will only end up biting us in the ass in the long run.


    Can anybody please refute the above without deciding to refute a point I wasn't making or only to tackle one small part of my general argument?


    Perhaps Rob was actually right about one thing, maybe reporting them or not reporting won't make a difference and the sheer number of people breaking the rules will end up creating more restrictions on surf fishing either way. But I'll horsewhipped, goat-f#@ked, shot and snake bit before I help the people who are only going to make things worse for me, you, the club and everybody else out there who legally partakes in surf fishing. They are going to screw it up for us and you're talking about the merits of helping them. Screw them! They don't deserve our help and they're not going to get it from me.

    Quote from tedsbumper


    I've made several points that no one has yet to disprove:


    Just because you say it Trey, doesn't mean we have to disprove it for it to be wrong. You always seem to need to use extreme examples to embellish your point. That's a good sign that your argument is actually weak. Not everyone who breaks one rule is out to break all other rules. My guess is that they thought they could go fishing once or twice on a busy beach and not get caught. That's all, and because of that, I don't think they're mass murderers (to use your extreme examples). Regardless, I'm gonna help if I can. I've broken a few rules in my life and I turned out okay. I think I'd prefer to err on the side of being good to people, often when they don't deserve it. I hope you can live with being less of a positive influence.


    And it is possible to help them AND notify the rangers.

    Quote from 96xj


    So will everyone who is like "its illegal, Im a good person and illegal wheelers will rot in hell" Shut the f-word up please!



    I learned early on that we are not the judge of other people or their actions. I am all for turning their sorry asses in though, and that includes you, member or not. I do hope that after some time the rangers come to recognize a DeJA sticker as a sign of Jeepers who want the same things they do.


    To that end, if any of you see a member or guest on this site obviously disregarding the rules of the beach which cause harm to the beach, let the BOD know.

    Quote from Woody


    I think everyone needs to take a deep breath, step back from the computer for a few hours, go get a bit of fresh air, count to ten and relax.


    Why? I like conversations like this. I don't think anyones angry...I think they are pationate about how they feel.


    I always enjoy a good debate....


    Trey may come off as pissed, but he's not....

    It just seems that everyone is getting upset over nothing.


    As a member of the law enforcement community and as a former Park Ranger, I personally would help out anyone in need of assistance regardless of what they have done. I would point out to them what they did was wrong and tell them not to do it again. If they seemed general sorry for what they did, so be it. If they had an attitude about it, I would then most likely call up the PRs and let them know what was going on and let them handle it.

    Aside from what I personally do, which I stated above and may have came off in a negative manner.
    I would like to avoid it if at all possible, but I do what I do with the knowledge that I am prepared to get caught and I am willing to pay the price for my mistakes and/or bad judgement, which I obviously have sometimes. But if I saw an illegal wheeler/fisherman stuck or in some kind of trouble, I would jump at the chance to help them because I think of what I would want if I were in his/her position. You get what you give. :roll:

    Quote from tedsbumper


    That's right, that's my point, Keith! Jesus Christ,


    Easy, Trey. I can hear that vein in your head thumping.



    Quote

    Oh, and as far as karma is concerned, why would you use karma as a reason to help somebody engage in an illegal activity that may end up costing us by restricting our legal activity?


    I believe you are confusing me with another decent human being.


    I NEVER used the word "karma" in this discussion.



    Quote

    I've made several points that no one has yet to disprove:


    Most of your "points" are conjecture, so attempting to prove or disprove them is futile.



    I'll finish up with these final thoughts:


    I've been driving on the beach for over 20 years.


    There have always been ignorant people out there, and I'm sure there always will be.


    And when I come across them, if I can possibly educate them as to the errors of their ways I probably will, and if I can lend assistance I probably will. This is the way I was raised, and the way I choose to live MY life.


    You are certainly welcome to your opinion as well as living YOUR life the way you choose.


    And when we get to meet that great fisherman in the sky, let's hope for your sake he never took a wrong turn and wandered onto a beach w/o a surf tag.


    Peace. I'm out.

    It was labeled as a debate - the reason we were talking about it is because we are still in a debate......


    It just drives me insane to see people say "Your still on this topic?".....yes its a debate! We are gonna talk about...


    It was a good subject, and brought up some good points....it wasn't out there to attack people or anyone. Trey started out the post that started this with stating it was a OPINION...which can/and will spark debates and opposition....I think its good.


    I'd like to say thank you all for all for good input, and some really valid points....it gave me a chance to form another perspective on something.

    its not that it doesnt interest me, obviously it caught my eye because I read it. to keep saying the same thing over and over again seems pointless to me but I forgot thats how things are debated here. never really making any good points just blowing off steam and stroking the ego




    it's your jeep...if you want to tow someone with it then do it...if not the dont and call it a day!

    Okay everyone, Chris has a good point. From now on you're allowed to post only once with your opinion, and then nothing else. That should keep the discussions down to a bare minimum, and allow more time for other important topics that interest her more. I'm sorry Chris, I don't know what we were thinking. Please forgive us.






















    Hey Chris, not only can I do what I want with my Jeep, I can do what I want with my keyboard. If you don't like how we're discussing this, go to another forum. There are lots of other posts that could benefit from your input, I'm sure.

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