Debate: Driving On The Beach W/O a Surf Tag

IMO, from now on, anyone stuck on the beach without a surf tag, just call the park rangers. I know we're supposed to help each other out, but that's a two-way street. They're supposed to obey the law which helps keep surf-fishing legal and keep our beach tag fees down. The same kind of asshats that go out there with no tags are also more likely to damage the dunes or drive through the bird nesting areas. The state parks will respond by increasing our tag fees and restricting more areas. $65(in state) and $130(out-of-state) quite high compared with the cost only 10 or so years ago. Twice this week we've seen posts about vehicles stuck with no beach tags. When those vehicles get stuck in the surf zone, there's quite a remediation fee involved with chemical spill containment. Same thing with driving up in the dunes; if they don't catch the people doing it and fine them, then we're all going to pay.

You guys are good samaritans for helping out stranded motorists and yes it gives the club a good public image so I applaud you for that. But, when I see a vehicle on the beach with no tags after I just forked out $65 for mine, I want to put a tire iron through their windshield, not help them out of a jam. I say screw 'em, stuck or not, call the park rangers. We'll only be helping ourselves in the long run.

Sorry to rant and go off topic. Sorry to hear you didn't catch the big one with the kayak. I can't wait to see it in action.

[Moderator's note: This thread was split from "Fish Tales..." - KC]

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the new price for the tags is the first increase i can remmember
maybe 15 years iirc went by with out one
so im not complaining about that

My point was that exactly. The people that screw around down there are the ones that are going to cost us even more in the future. Other than maintenence on the air pumps and the dune crossings, what is legal surf fishing costing the state? But when they have to pay outside companies to come repair the dunes and replant grass, they're going to hit us with that. When the birdwatchers start complaining people are riding through the nesting areas, then it's going to hit the papers and DNREC will be forced to restrict even larger areas. Policing the violators on the beach is the same thing as tread lightly. Ensuring that those areas are used legally and responsibly will ensure that we will be able to continue using the beach for a reasonable fee. I'll call the rangers the instant I see any illegal activity out there. I do it in every state park because I know how much it sucks when the majority has to be punished because of the actions of a few.

I don't think you quite understand the insult it is for me to pay my $65 of hard-earned money to see some jakaninny come rolling on the beach like it's only a mere suggestion. Look at what has happened up in the C&D area because of people trashing the place. We don't get to wheel up there even though we do the cleanup once a year. So because of the actions of a few irresponsible people, we are limited in terms of places for us to wheel our vehicles. I know it's not super-exciting-funzo-offroad-mega-park, but it'd be a nice place for the NCC crew to go try out a new lift or locker once in a while.

It's not simply a matter of don't call the cops, maybe they'll get stuck and learn a lesson. When that crap goes on enough, then the state will start limiting our access and jacking up our fees. Then we learn their lesson. They won't learn jack s@#t. Them being stuck for a while will teach them a lesson like keeping a drunk driver on the side of the road until they sober up. Yeah, they'll learn from that.

Next thing you know, they'll require a booth and a park employee at each dune crossing to ensure compliance with the tag and equipment rule. Then who do you think will bear the brunt of the cost of the employees, the booth and the electric for the air conditioning? What happens when the park is too short-staffed in the off season and decides to start closing certain beach crossings fall through spring? Think it won't happen? Think again. I'm not exactly an outsider when it comes to DNREC and their policy and procedure. Policing the areas ourselves will only help ensure that we will be able to continue to enjoy those areas for years to come at a reasonable fee.

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the state and local goverments pay for the beach replenishment

twice a year i think
volunteers clean up the shore line
aswell as plant new shrubs and grass to help the dunes
most of which was donated
now that doesnt keep it clean but its a start

Andrew, one thing you must understand is the difference in cost of using volunteers to do cleanups and using outside contractors specializing in dune remediation. They can fine you up to $100 per tire per foot you encroach in the dunes. Think about that; $400 per foot. You can't dredge and put up new dunes. They have to be specially built and if the state doesn't catch people doing this stuff and fine them, then they're going to start limiting access and increasing our fees. If this crap keeps up, we won't have as many spots to surf fish and it certainly won't take another 15 years for the fee to go up.

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hell ur a fire fighter right ?

does that mean u wont save someone who fell asleep smoking causing the house to catch fire
just because what they did was wrong ?

Andrew, there is a world of difference between someone being stuck in the sand without a permit and someone being trapped inside a burning structure. If the same person who had no beach tag went for a swim and got in trouble in the water, I would help them regardless of what they did illegally. I can't believe you would draw a comparison between an idiot breaking the law and an idiot who's life is in danger. I signed up to be a firefighter to help people in danger no matter who they are and what they did. Yes, we always have to evaluate the situation to see if we are needlessly placing our lives and our partners' lives in danger. For instance, I would probably not enter a meth lab because of their tendency to be booby-trapped. That is one of only a few extremely dangerous situations I could imagine a person putting themselves in where I would decide that they screwed themselves. But even in hurricanes, people who refuse to evacuate are given notice that after a certain time, the fire dept. will not attempt a rescue. If the emergency services decided to stop helping the stupid, there would be no more emergency services; just a town constable with a first aid kit and a fire extinguisher. Stupid is the bread and butter of the fire dept.

In any case, my point was this: illegal activity on the beaches will only serve to hurt those of us who obey the laws in the first place, not the law breakers. As usual, when I make a point on here, people argue with me, but can't attack my point because it's based in sound judgement and supported by facts or similar incidents.

I'll even throw in one last example: If everyone using the beach always carried out all their trash with them, then wouldn't glass bottles still be allowed down on the beach? See Andrew, you always take care to not leave any trash behind as do most of us down there. Yet, the glass bottles are still banned. Why is that? Because a few people acted irresponsibly and now we all have to pay the price. Andrew, you enjoy a few cold ones down on the beach and you're responsible enough to carry out all your trash. So is that rule fair to you? You're paying someone's else's price. You are learning their lesson.

Quote from blueyedevil

but honestly.. will it matter that a jeep club or people WITH surf tags call in violators or if they are caught on their own numbers are numbers.. if there are enough violators your prolly right access will be limited.. and then you can only wonder why.. "we have been policing it ourselves??" i think when it fit hits the shan... its going to be the high number of violators reported by people that called in violations that does the closing... I'm not saying that they wont like the extra fine income.. I'm just saying that it prolly wont matter where those violations come from..
its a catch 22... if you ignore it.. its a slap in the face to those who use the tags.. if you call in violators it causes numbers to go up and some big wig in a cozy airconditioned office to say.. "hmm.. all these violations.. maybe we should discontinue this program..." there has to be a better way....
just my uneducated 2 cents

Yes, Rob your two cents are uneducated in this case. If people call in the violators as soon as they're spotted, the parks crew will 1 be able to stop them more quickly thus increasing the odds that they will be caught before they do damage to the dunes or the bird nesting areas and 2 if the violators are being called in by the surf fishers, then the parks will A view us in a better light and B come to rely on us as allies in keeping the beaches clean and safe. It's just like neighborhood watch programs. The citizens who report the crimes are looked upon favorably by the police. The police don't punish the people who report the crimes because it makes it seem like there are more crimes in a certain area. It shows that they are concerned about their community and want to get involved in making it a better place. It makes the officers' jobs easier by targeting offenders for them. If we make their job easier, then they will view us in a better light and they will see that we are concerned with the beaches and want to keep them open for all to use legally.

No, we don't report speeders because what will be the end result? Will the state raise the speed limit if violators are called in and the state sees that the citizens are involved in responsible use of the roadways? Nope. It's too late for that. Just like it'll be too late to call in violators if the state decides to close the beaches to all vehicles. If the beaches get closed or certain areas get closed, do you think they'll start reopening the beaches if you call in violators who sneak on? Nope, it'll be too late for that.

This is not an issue of call it in so they can get screwed, Ha Ha! This is an issue of us policing the beach areas so that we don't get screwed. Cut and dry. You want to keep using the beaches, then you better start doing something everytime you see a violation on the beach.

Oh, and approaching people with a friendly reminder....uh yeah, good thing no one approached that whack job up on the C&D canal with a friendly reminder before he decided to open fire on two rangers.

Andrew, did you happen to read my paragraph about glass bottles? This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's a minor inconvenience, yes. But, it is still an example of a situation brought about by irresponsible activity on the beach and you have to pay the price. I enjoy Corona as does our president. Do you know what kind of a cracker I feel like drinking Corona out of the can? I think it's bulls@#t because I clean up after myself, but there again it doesn't matter how responsible I am or the majority of us are. It only matters what a few did. And now it's too late. The parks aren't going to give us another chance. They aren't going to have a trial run to see if we can have bottles down there and not leave them laying around. It's too late for that. That ship has sailed. Get it through your head: It will be too late to start policing the beaches once we're all banned or they start closing down certain areas! Too late! Over, done, fine. Forget the permit fees. Forget the fines. How much will it suck for all of us when we have to lug all our beach gear including poles and tackle down from the parking lots? How many of us would still surf fish if we can't drive our chairs, rods, coolers, grills, and tackle boxes down on the beach? There will still be some die harders among us, but for the most part it will suck all around.

I'll say this, don't think they won't start closing down more of the beaches if illegal activity continues to increase while the parks budgets continue to decrease. You may use the surf fishing beaches a lot more often than me, but you don't know jack when it comes to the big picture of how DNREC will regulate the parks if violations go up and budgets go down. Maybe Ying will come one here and tell you I know exactly what I'm talking about. You don't get any closer than me to the goings on of DNREC without being an actual employee .