HP-LP Question?

HP is always preferable for rocks as you have increased drive shaft clearance... IMHO I would not trade a HP 30 for a waggy dana 44...you gain bigger brakes but you are stuck with a ring gear that is about the same strength and the same u-joints. so it is alot of work for what in my opinion is little gain

The reason high pinion is preferable because of angle/clearence is only half true.... If that was the case, people would build high pinion rear(back) axles all the time, but that is not the case.

High pinion front rears are preferable because the pinion gears (while moving forward) mesh with the stronger side of the ring gear (yeah flame on but its hard to show without a picture). Thats why if you flip is 180 degree it look like every rear/back differential.

Its a lot stronger when its high pinion

-Brad

Quote from ruquik

The reason high pinion is preferable because of angle/clearence is only half true.... If that was the case, people would build high pinion rear(back) axles all the time, but that is not the case.

High pinion front rears are preferable because the pinion gears (while moving forward) mesh with the stronger side of the ring gear (yeah flame on but its hard to show without a picture). Thats why if you flip is 180 degree it look like every rear/back differential.

Its a lot stronger when its high pinion

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true. i don't have a link handy, but i've seen the specs on the comparative strengths and the HPs are stronger overall.

Quote from jonzjeepyj

I can completely understand and see that for SUA, but what about SOA?
It seems to me that a High Pinion Diff, SOA would increase the angle of the
front drive shaft. How could this help?

actually, the reverse is true. High pinion has the pinion yoke closer to the frame, so the driveshaft and ujoint angles will be better. Lowering it increases the angles which isn't good for the ujoints.

first:

Quote from jonzjeepyj

Everyone I have talked to has also said to stay away from the Waggy 44's as a set up on my Jeep for a SOA upgrade.

then:

Quote from jonzjeepyj

How desirable are they for an upgrade?

You seriously sound like you have a hard on to buy the axles...so why bother asking?

But to answer the above questions for those who actually care

1. Yes the axle shafts are "stronger" but they have the same weak point which is the u-joint

2. dana 30's and dana 44's have the same u-joints

3. they now make dana 30 5.13 and 5.38 ring and pinions

4. the dana 44 has manual hubs, true, false is having any kind of effect on the gas mileage.. you might see a 3-5% improvement but you drive a brick with wheels so nothing will help gas mileage save buying a honda

5. What does hi versus lo pinion have to do with setting up the steering?

6. the axles could be free and you will still be into the project for close to a grand if you count rebuilding the axles, regearing, new wheels, and doing hi-steer.. from the sounds of it, you have a geared axle with hi-steer already

Quote from jonzjeepyj

I did the solid axle conversion from an XJ and only replaced the right side 2 piece
axle, and eliminated the Vac disconnect. This swap now has my front drive shaft,
both axles and wheels all locked together. This upgrade alone dropped my mileage
from 273 miles per tank down to 193 miles per tank. With gas at over 3 bucks a
gallon, my Jeep getting 14 mpg, the math is pretty simple. That would equate to
over 80 miles per tank or the equivalent of a 5 gallon loss or over 15 bucks a tank.
I know that not having the extra drag will make a hugh difference in my mpg and
wallet. I do use my rig as a daily driver and would like the benefits of manual lockout
hubs and YES, Better Gas Mileage.

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Removing the vacuum disconnect option cannot result in a drastic change like that unless something is seriously wrong with the axle. XJs came with both setups and there were no fuel mileage differences between them. Something else is to blame for the drop in mileage... tires, summer/winter fuel mix, engine tune, etc.

I've been buying and selling axles (and jeep parts) for at least 6-7 years now. If you want to flip them, you are going to have to put some effort into digging around online and through magazines. Its not hard to get a guestimate as to what they are worth.

If you want to make profit the last thing you do is tell people (that you could potentially sell something to) how much you can get them for only to a week later ask double that. I could tell you they are worth $300 so I could buy them for $300 even though they are worth $500 (all hypothetical of course). Its just in your best interest if you want to make some coin to (internet, LOL) research it and then decide whether its worth the time and effort to sit on until you get it sold.

Just some friendly advice.

-Brad

First off just as a case in point I never had a problum with my stock Dana 30 & 35 that were under my YJ. I had 33s and lockers and romped them quite a bit and ever droke any shafts or gears, a few u joints, but nothing major. So since I decided to go up to 37's with a soa lift I decided to find some new axles. I was looking at first for a set of tj Dana 44's, however after looking it seamed for what I was paying thAt the 37 would tear them up and not be worth the investment, from both tj's and jk's. So I started looking full width, their are advantages of full width axles, stability, locking hubs, larger heavier housings, and the fact that parts are readily and cheaply found. So, on to your point, if you find what your looking for buy it, if not then keep looking, the way the economy is going patience in this case will most likley lead to good results. The problum is that nowadays jeepers see all these offroad mags and builds with currie axles and thousands of dollars in cool mods and add ons, so the standard is set. The point is that it dosent matter what everone else thinks, look online, do the research, and make the decision. No matter what you do people will agree and disagree. Don't buy them just so you can maybe sell them later, btw I love yjs, I feel they were the last real rugged jeep. Here comes the storm......

you have asked the same question 5 different ways and have gotten the same answer each time...you obviously dont' like the answer you have been given...so it begs the question why keep asking if you are hell bent on buying the axles no matter what the peanut gallery says....hence the answer...

and as for "flipping" the axles, take it from someone who has sold 100's of parts in the past 10 yrs...take the value you think the part is worth, cut it by 3/4 and you will have the price it will sell for...take the time you think it will take to sell it and triple it and you have the amount of time it will take to sell them...just giving you my experiences over the last 10 yrs in selling parts on various jeep internet sites...now I just give the parts I have as spares or take-off's to my buddies as it is not worth the hassle

Quote from Cj Feiler

The point is that it dosent matter what everone else thinks, look online, do the research, and make the decision. No matter what you do people will agree and disagree. Don't buy them just so you can maybe sell them later,

Quote from whatevah

Removing the vacuum disconnect option cannot result in a drastic change like that unless something is seriously wrong with the axle. XJs came with both setups and there were no fuel mileage differences between them. Something else is to blame for the drop in mileage... tires, summer/winter fuel mix, engine tune, etc.

X2. I run with my hubs connected all winter and don't see a noticeable fuel difference. I still like having the hubs because of the Detroit in the front and non-serviceable joints all around but fuel mileage wasn't on my radar when I made the decision.

Quote from Cj Feiler

btw I love yjs, I feel they were the last real rugged jeep. Here comes the storm......

TJ and JK guy here... ...and I agree. If I was going to get a trail rig to just beat on, the simplicity of a leaf sprung Jeep would be the way to go. There is so much less to fail.

Quote from turtle

3. they now make dana 30 5.13 and 5.38 ring and pinions

I saw them for a JK D30 but had never seen them for an older D30 until you posted that and I searched. :o
Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

You trying to build that Jeep of yours as big as that old Ford truck you used to own??

Quote from jonzjeepyj

I have said this before, it always kills me when someone says .....
This has been debated before
This thread is beating a dead horse
Just search, there is a lot of info on that
Search is your friend You got the same answer several times

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Did I miss where you were asked to search? Mebbe I'm tired but only thing I see is Bill saying that he had to search out the 5.13/5.38 info for himself.

Quote

This is an INTERACTIVE forum about jeeps. Yes, almost everything on here has been covered before.
Yes, I could just sit and search, but why do people CHAT on these forums, they want to INTERACT
with other Jeepers. They can also input there experience along with their knowledge.

Thanks for your input but if it bothers you that I'm trying to research this and wanting the same
questions answered by different people then give me your input and then let others answer. Your
input is valued but is not the only viewpoint. I want to gather all the facts that I can by as many
people as I can and then make MY decision based on what I find. I'm asking this several times wanting
different opinions, not yours over and over again. I heard what you had to say. Not everyone has
the same knowledge, facts and experiences. Each person could potentially add somthing new and
different to the conversation. If I get the same answer several times by several different then I
can conclude that it has some merit. If I get several different answers then I need to research some
more to find the truth. With no disrespect, I don't really know you at all. I don't know if everything
you say is coming from experience and facts or if it's your opinion based on nothing. See what I mean.
I just want to make sure I'm making good decisions based on facts that are collaborated by many
different people saying the same thing.

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Thanks for that dissertation on the usage of internet forums. It was thrilling. I'm sure what turtle was alluding to was that from an outside perspective it would appear that your decision was already made, you simply wanted others to justify it for you.

Quote

Quote from: turtle on Yesterday at 20:45:00
they now make Dana 30 5.13 and 5.38 ring and pinions

Yes they do. Yukon makes them and they are Standard Rotation. Not compatible for the Reverse
Rotation YJ Dana 30. Unless someone else makes them then these are useless.

Err...you sure about that? I don't see 5.38s but here are 5.13's: http://www.ringpinion.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=7427 Check out the compatible diffs...yup, YJ D30.

Either way you look at it IMHO a LP D44 is a marginal upgrade over a HP30 and hardly worth the cost or effort. 99% of the failures you see out there are ujoint or axle related and that same joint ain't gonna magically hold more power just because it's in a D44 housing. Yes, you would be getting those axles cheap but you also have expenses in getting them under your Jeep (gears, lockers, springpads, shockmounts, brakelines, new brakes, misc hardware, wheels, your labor, etc, etc, etc) In the end even if you selling them for a few bucks more then you paid, is it really worth the time and effort? I'd say evaluate your end state...and I'm not talking where you wanna be 'right now', I'm talking where you ultimately decide that you want your Jeep to end up...and build for that. I'd have saved alot of time and money on my rig if I'd have saved the $$ I dumped into my HP30/D44 combo and just wheeled the balls off it until I did 60's.

--Ian