*** Does My 2 Cents Add Up ? ***

    OK, I have been doing a lot of research and digging. Please help me out.


    I want a taller tire. Clearance, stance and looks are all I really want. with that said, I wanted to go with a tire that is as tall as my Jeep would allow. I need to replace my stock springs due to sagging. I started researching springs/lifts for my 92 YJ. I came to the conclusion that if I'm going to replace my stock springs , then I might as well replace them with lift springs. The 2-2.5" range was about what I could afford, around the 400-500 dollar range. After doing some digging, I came across some pretty good deals on different lifts. Not only on the 2-2.5 range but also the 4" range as well. The difference of price between the 2-2.5" and the 4" lifts is very minimal. OK, so now I'm going with the 4" spring replacement lit. For the attributes that I'm looking for, a stage I or basic kit will work great for me. No hard core wheeling just highway driving.


    Now that I have the kit picked out, I went digging for tires and wheels. HERE IS WHERE MY 2 CENTS COMES IN....
    As you go up in tire size the width also increases.
    30x9.5
    31x10.5
    33x12.5
    35x12.5 or larger
    I only have a 4 banger with limited power but want to go as tall as possible. Going from a stock tire of 205x75xR15 (27") to a 31-33" tire would kill the motors power and gas mileage, the gas mileage being one of 4 cylinders better features. Everyone keeps telling me it's the extra weight of the over sized tires is what would kill my motor. I think it has more to do with the rolling resistance of the *** WIDER *** not taller tires. People, cargo and fuel changes on a daily thus changing the weight sometimes dramatically, this changes the drivablity slightly but not too much for you to notice. A 250lb person can get in and out of your jeep as a passenger and you might not even notice any change. I think the rolling resistance of the wider tires has ** MORE ** to play in the power loss then the extra weight.


    While looking for tires I came across some BFG AT KO's that were 33x (9.5) x 15's. Tall and skinny. I know there is a compromise on the handling, tire characteristics and performance when you have too much sidewall. The 33x9.5x15 is just about the tallest tire that you can fit on a 15" wheel. As of now I have 235x75xR15's (a 29" tire) which the width on them is 9.25". I still have a 5 gear and wanted to keep it that way if possible. The 33x9.5x15 tire would only be a .25 or a 1/4 of an inch change in the tires width, minimizing the rolling resistance. I was thinking of trying this set up...


    I have come across a R/C complete lift shipped to my door for 432.00
    The tires I can get M/B/I locally for 143.00 each (572 total)


    4" Rough country lift complete 432.00
    33x9.5x15 BFG TA KO's 572.00


    Total ---1004.00--- ** ! W o W ! **


    Has anyone used the tall and skinny tire setup? I have BFG TA KO's on my 2500HD Silverado and know what their characteristics are like. Just wanted to know if anyone has used a tall and skinny set up and how it handled?
    Also, is there any other manufacture that makes this tire size? I think the cold weather Jeepers like the Tall /Skinny set up for the snow.



    Thanks, John

    There is nothing that can't be fixed if you throw enough money at it,

    while surface resistance has a bit to do with it, the weight of the tire has a lot more impact, as your motor has to turn a lot more weight than normal during acceleration. 100lbs of extra tire weight has more impact on gas mileage than 500lbs of stuff inside the Jeep.

    Jerry / Whatevah

    2020 Gladiator Mojave - 33" Falken mud tires, LoD side steps, Zroadz bed rack, Quadratec QRC winch bumper, Superwinch EPi 9.0, Kleinn on-board air, Kleinn air horns, lots of lights, Yaesu ham radio with GPS tracker.

    Gone- 2012 JK Rubicon with stuff. Long gone- Long-arm 2001 Cherokee with stuff.

    OK but how would the motor know? Weight is weight,Yes No? So A tire with the same footprint lets say 9.5x15 but the only difference being the height 30 -33 and the weight.


    30x9.5x15_______________38lbs each (total of 152)
    33x9.5x15_______________42lbs each (total of 168)


    Difference of...
    ***_ 16lbs total weight_***


    Wouldn't that just prove "my theory" Rolling resistance / friction across the wider tire has more of an impact then tire weight? 16lbs of total weight compared to 500lbs of cargo/fuel weight/passengers would make that big of a difference?
    I'm no expert and I don't claim to know what I'm talking about. I'm just trying to figure things out. LOL


    Tire weight Info gathered from link below


    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/…+T%2FA+KO&tirePageLocQty=

    There is nothing that can't be fixed if you throw enough money at it,

    Edited once, last by jonzjeepyj ().

    I am no physics expert, but your account of the added stress on the motor is missing the fact that the taller the tire the further it puts the ground from the center of your axle. The greater the distance between the two would add more resistance to your drivetrain. Basically like trying to hold a five pound weight at the end of a spoon, then trying to hold the same five pound weight at the end of a broomstick. If that makes any sense? Like I said, I am no expert, but either way I see a gear swap in your future.

    Quote from vbquick1


    I am no physics expert, but your account of the added stress on the motor is missing the fact that the taller the tire the further it puts the ground from the center of your axle. The greater the distance between the two would add more resistance to your drivetrain. Basically like trying to hold a five pound weight at the end of a spoon, then trying to hold the same five pound weight at the end of a broomstick. If that makes any sense? Like I said, I am no expert, but either way I see a gear swap in your future.


    Makes sense to me. :up:

    Quote

    No but he is.


    Can't we as fellow jeepers talk about somthing without "slinging mud" at each other. No pun intended. I said I'm not claiming to know what I'm talking about, just trying to figure things out. Sorry if the conversation got too deep for you.


    LOL vbquick1 I know what you mean. HMMMMMMMMMM, That explains it a little more. I knew there had to be something else going on. A difference of 16lbs, in my eyes wouldn't do it. There are probably more factors we are not thinking of. I do believe that by keeping the width down and minimizing the rolling resistance/friction will help with power loss!


    Anyone else have any Theories?

    There is nothing that can't be fixed if you throw enough money at it,

    Adding Bigger tires without regearing takes the engine out of its optimal power range. For example, you will have to bring your rpms up a bit more to get the tire moving from a dead stop due to its larger diameter and wieght. By bringing the rpm up you are taking the engine above its power band, causing it to feel sluggish. On the other hand once you are moving down the highway at speed your engine may be running at a lower rpm which would usually mean better mileage however, because of the larger diamater and wieght and improper gearing you need a bit more throttle to get moving...Hence poor gas mileage and wear and tear. Moral of the story....Lifting=bigger tires= Poor gas mileage=Need for regearing=$$$. Do some more research before you just go and add a 4 inch lift, as you will find that there is more involved than just new springs.

    2000 Sahara, All custom...
    2000 Cherokee Police package, Beater....


    I may be slowest and the stupidest

    Edited once, last by 2000sahara ().

    Quote from jonzjeepyj

    Can't we as fellow jeepers talk about somthing without "slinging mud" at each other. No pun intended. I said I'm not claiming to know what I'm talking about, just trying to figure things out. Sorry if the conversation got too deep for you.


    LOL vbquick1 I know what you mean. HMMMMMMMMMM, That explains it a little more. I knew there had to be something else going on. A difference of 16lbs, in my eyes wouldn't do it. There are probably more factors we are not thinking of. I do believe that by keeping the width down and minimizing the rolling resistance/friction will help with power loss!


    Anyone else have any Theories?


    I was not slinging mud the link I left was for a MIT Physics Professor explaining the dynamics of rotation.
    I never said what he said was wrong nor did I ever bash his theory. I was giving you what you asked for.
    And the link is actual facts not theories.

    From personal experience no matter what tire size or width you decide to go with, once you cross over the 235/75 barrier (30s, 31s, or 33s) with the 4 cylinder you are going to suffer greatly in performance. Many moons ago I owned a 95 with the 4 cylinder and as soon as I went 31's I kissed 5th gear goodbye. Running I95 necessitated third gear downshifts at certain times. You will have three options as I see it, leave the small tires on, go with 33s and 4.88s, or sell the 4 cylinder and buy a 6 cylinder.

    Quote

    Do some more research before you just go and add a 4 inch lift, as you will find that there is more involved than just new springs.


    Is it me or is everyone coming across like their aggravated with me.


    Yes I know about all the other things. I have had my hard core wheeling days when I was younger.
    Yes there is more then just throwing larger springs on like Pitman arms for steering correction, T/case lowering kits for proper drive shaft angles, Brake line relocation brackets or longer brake lines, longer shocks, bump stops bushings wedges for the rear leafs etc etc etc Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. I'm talking about one issue, power loss due to larger tires and I wanted to discuss it with people who care about finding out the truth rather then just accepting the same old answers. Yes in short

    Quote

    Lifting=bigger tires= Poor gas mileage=Need for regearing=$$$.

    This is not my first lifted Vehicle. Try my 7Th. I have learned a lot about how this work by asking questions and getting honest answers. I have lifted everything from a fords to Chevy's, Toyota's and now this is my third jeep. There is a hurricane blowing out there and I just wanted to talk to other jeepers and find out some info to make some tire decisions. That's what I'm trying to do. As I talk and discuss more ideas with members in this forum, I'm learning more. I'm not interested in beating my chest and being king of the sand box, just wanting some honest answers.


    Nothing more, Nothing less.


    Please stop trying to slam me.


    First of all

    There is nothing that can't be fixed if you throw enough money at it,

    I don't think anyone has slammed you first off. You ask the question without saying you have done this seven times before. We have no idea your background or what kind of education you have. I think people are just feeling out what you want for an answer. Very few people here ask questions that they don't already know what they want to hear/do they are just looking for conformation. I personally am running the 33X9.5X15 on mine. I still lost MPG's and most of my over drive (Automatic) until I get to around 70 MPH. Be a little less critical when others post no one here is out to get you!



    P.S. vbquick1 hope you didn't think I was slamming you with the MIT Professor video.

    Quote from jonzjeepyj


    Is it me or is everyone coming across like their aggravated with me.


    yeah, dude, i think it's just you. ;)



    i read the posts in this thread and it appears to me that everyone is offering their input and advice in a matter-of-fact tone.

    ~ JD
    * WARNING - The above post may contain trace elements of biting sarcasm. Those with known sensitivities should avoid staring directly at it.

    Edited once, last by altierior ().

    I'm sorry if I came across wrong. I didn't mean to come across so strong. I guess it did sound like I was paranoid about people out to get me, LOL I didn't get you link to work. I'll try it again. I guess my kids are driving me crazy today and I took it out on you. I'm not looking for conformation, Just honest answers. I'm tired of getting the same answer without a reason. Some of the members gave me good input, and I'm starting to understand why and how this works. but there has got to be more. Like I said, I'll try your link again.


    And by the way, When I said the kit was complete, It had everything in it I spoke about for that price.


    I guess I'll go take a valium now and check back in awhile. Maybe I'll have a better perspective.


    John

    There is nothing that can't be fixed if you throw enough money at it,

    Ok, I'm back
    CAPTAIN


    1) How does it ride?
    2) Is your jeep a 4/6cyl?
    3) Did you regear?
    4) What was you loss in MPG?
    5) What tire is it, The BFG AT KO?
    6) Is there any other brands in that size?
    7) Would a 31x9.5x15 kill it much more from a 235/75/R15--(29x9.25x15)?
    8) Who makes 31x9.5x15's other than Interco and BFG?


    John

    There is nothing that can't be fixed if you throw enough money at it,

    Edited once, last by jonzjeepyj ().

    LOL!


    No really, I didn't take anything. I just need to take a break. I went for a good soak in the Hot Tub.

    There is nothing that can't be fixed if you throw enough money at it,


    1, It rides better than stock. (OME 2.5)
    2, It is the 6 Cyl.
    3, No I did not and am right on the verge of acceptable loss in power.
    4, Lost 3-4 MPG below 60-65 above 65 level ground I can get about 18-19.
    5, The BFG AT KO.
    6, (Not that I am aware of)
    7, Never did that mine is the sport came with 30's from the dealer 3.73 gears.
    8, Never looked into it .

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