Wheel spacing

    I've royally screwed up my trailer build. I shortened an axle I purchased in order to make the spring perches line up with the trailer frame. At the time, it seemed sensible. Last night I tacked the spring hardware into place and mounted the axle with u-bolts. Everything looked great until I went to mount a wheel on the lugs. (Nobody has to kick me here...I've already done that.)


    I know wheel spacers would be a possible solution. Question: is there such a thing as a 2" spacer for a 5x4.5 lug pattern? A quick internet search isn't producing any for me. I think 2" would really make the difference. FYI, I'm planning to put the 15x10 M/T Classic II wheels on this to match the TJ, but the backspacing is too shallow for not only this wheel, but for most.


    If I want to chalk this up as a $135 lesson, I could just go buy the same axle again and this time move the spring perches, instead of cutting the axle length. Obviously, that's not my preferred solution. Ok, fire away!

    When engaged in conversation with a fool, be sure he is not similarly engaged.
    Chief, DEJA Grammar Police

    Theres plenty of options for that lug pattern but I think 1.5" is as thick as your gonna get. You may be able to get wheels backspaced enough but then your looking at more $$ than a new axle.

    Is the axle tube roomy enough to utilize an axle slip collar such as found in the YJ's CAD? If so you could cut the middle of the axle and use the sleeve to gain back your lost length. It's not a drive axle so I wouldn't think it would suffer the kind of stress that a possibly weak link like using the CAD collar may provide.

    Your life is made up of 2 dates and a dash... make the most of the dash!

    IMHO both wheels and spacers are going to cost you more than sucking it up and buying another axle. You could scab the one you have back together but it'd drive me nuts personally looking at it all the time as a reminder of my screwup. Chalk it up to a learning experience and move on. Did you buy the axle with perches already welded? All the ones I've gotten from eastern marine came with loose perches for you to position/weld.


    Oh, and if you do decide to patch it back together make sure to sleeve the joint (you did do that when shortening too, right?)...we don't need to have you killing a busload of nuns when the joint fails.


    EDIT: Also keep in mind the increase in leverage that spacers would add....you will effectively de-rate the axle you're using by using a wheel with (presumably) much more offset than a 'real' trailer wheel and adding another 2" of spacer. :shrug:


    --Ian

    Good comments with minimum sarcasm -- thanks! Didn't want to make my initial post too long-winded, but, based on your posts, let me add here.....


    - The axle was cut in the middle and a sleeve was added to the interior, extending about 4 inches to both sides. Not only was the axle tube welded, but the sleeve was also tack welded by cutting holes in the axle tube to get to it. So that bugger isn't going anywhere.


    - Keith, good call on reversing the perches for a spring-over to maintain proper camber....did not think of that.


    - Quadna, thanks....didn't want to go to ebay on my work PC, so I never explored there.


    - Ok now this is going to get a little crazy, but...what if I cut off the ends of the axle so that I keep the hub? Then, I get a new LONGER piece of round steel and weld the old axle ends to the new steel to create a new axle. Would need to sleeve it I'm sure, and I'd need to build or buy perches. I think the steel tube could be had for maybe $25 or so. It wouldn't give me the camber, though, and I don't know how important that is.


    - Ian, maybe just buy a new axle without the hubs to save money? Mine came complete with hubs and perches from Tractor Supply, so what's the risk that the hubs don't work with other 2" round axles?

    When engaged in conversation with a fool, be sure he is not similarly engaged.
    Chief, DEJA Grammar Police

    Quote from Chief57


    - Ian, maybe just buy a new axle without the hubs to save money? Mine came complete with hubs and perches from Tractor Supply, so what's the risk that the hubs don't work with other 2" round axles?


    Trailer hubs are fairly standard pieces and are a good portion of the cost. If you decide to go the replacement route I'd definitely suggest saving the hubs and just buying a bare axle. Depending on the spec axle you can easily check the spindle size.

    Fwiw, many of the trailer spindles (at least the 3500lb rated ones) are too wide to clear a hub-centric Jeep wheel. I assume that applies to hub-centric spacers, as well. Aftermarket wheels with large hub openings will clear without a problem, though. With that in mind, you might want consider these spacers:http://www.ebay.com/itm/131335491998 they have a larger opening for the hub and don't have a lip, so are "lug centric". Don't forget the locktite!


    If the axle you have is 2500-3500lb rated, I think you'd be fine with the spacers, but if weaker, I'd try something different.

    Jerry / Whatevah

    2020 Gladiator Mojave - 33" Falken mud tires, LoD side steps, Zroadz bed rack, Quadratec QRC winch bumper, Superwinch EPi 9.0, Kleinn on-board air, Kleinn air horns, lots of lights, Yaesu ham radio with GPS tracker.

    Gone- 2012 JK Rubicon with stuff. Long gone- Long-arm 2001 Cherokee with stuff.

    Quote from whatevah


    Fwiw, many of the trailer spindles (at least the 3500lb rated ones) are too wide to clear a hub-centric Jeep wheel. I assume that applies to hub-centric spacers, as well. Aftermarket wheels with large hub openings will clear without a problem, though. With that in mind, you might want consider these spacers:http://www.ebay.com/itm/131335491998 they have a larger opening for the hub and don't have a lip, so are "lug centric". Don't forget the locktite!


    If the axle you have is 2500-3500lb rated, I think you'd be fine with the spacers, but if weaker, I'd try something different.


    I built this 12 years ago and used a 3500lb axle.



    Fairly certain the rims I used were Jeep rims and they fit fine.



    What bugs me the most on this is welding something smaller inside the original axle tube rather than something larger over it.


    I don't see how you could not lesson the strength of the original axle by adding a smaller "sleeve".

    Jerry, it's a 2000-lb axle. I'm now leaning toward a set of 2" spacers to solve this problem. I've checked the numbers with a tape measure this evening, and I believe that will give me 1" clearance. I think I understand what you're saying about the spindle size...will try to get one that's a good match.


    Keith, my first inclination was to put a sleeve over the axle, rather than through it. But, my metal guy (Metalcraft in Camden DE) could not come up with anything to fit, and he gave me the impression there wasn't anything that would be a good fit. He actually lathed/turned the pipe I used to make it perfect, and the guy who was helping me -- who does lots of welding and trailer builds -- seemed to think I'd be ok.

    When engaged in conversation with a fool, be sure he is not similarly engaged.
    Chief, DEJA Grammar Police

    Quote from clendaniel

    A new 2200lb axle would be around $75. There's only ~$20 difference from the cheapest spacers...personally I'd do it the 'right' way. :shrug:


    --Ian


    Ian, my current axle has these specs:


    Inner bearing (ID) - 2"
    Outer bearing (ID) - 1 1/16"
    Seal size (ID) - 1 1/2"


    I know the terminology isn't always the same from brand to brand, so can you tell me if the Reliable axle you've suggested will work with my existing hubs? Did I give you enough information? (The one difference in the two axles is that the Tractor Supply (Dexter) axle itself has a 2" outside diameter, where the Reliable seems to have 1 3/4" diameter.

    When engaged in conversation with a fool, be sure he is not similarly engaged.
    Chief, DEJA Grammar Police

    Quote from Chief57

    Ian, my current axle has these specs:


    Inner bearing (ID) - 2"
    Outer bearing (ID) - 1 1/16"
    Seal size (ID) - 1 1/2"


    I know the terminology isn't always the same from brand to brand, so can you tell me if the Reliable axle you've suggested will work with my existing hubs? Did I give you enough information? (The one difference in the two axles is that the Tractor Supply (Dexter) axle itself has a 2" outside diameter, where the Reliable seems to have 1 3/4" diameter.


    3,500 lb axles are available with 1 1/16" or 1 3/8" spindles. 1 1/16" is the most common.

    Quote from Chief57


    Inner bearing (ID) - 2"
    Outer bearing (ID) - 1 1/16"
    Seal size (ID) - 1 1/2"


    You positive on that inner bearing ID? It doesn't seem right....even a 7K axle only has a 1 3/4" inner bearing. Not to mention that the seal ID is always larger than the bearing ID as there's a shoulder on the spindle where the bearing bottoms out. I'd bet that it is the correct one as trailer spindle sizes are pretty standard and that weight range axle usually doesn't have a tapered spindle. If you're worried I'd pull one of the hubs off and bring it with you when you get a replacement.


    --Ian

    Quote from clendaniel

    You positive on that inner bearing ID? It doesn't seem right....even a 7K axle only has a 1 3/4" inner bearing. Not to mention that the seal ID is always larger than the bearing ID as there's a shoulder on the spindle where the bearing bottoms out. I'd bet that it is the correct one as trailer spindle sizes are pretty standard and that weight range axle usually doesn't have a tapered spindle. If you're worried I'd pull one of the hubs off and bring it with you when you get a replacement.


    --Ian


    I may very well be wrong.....am a little outside my depth here. I agree that it's a good idea to bring a hub with me if I go to a local retail store. Maybe a trip to Newark to Eastern Marine is in my near future!

    When engaged in conversation with a fool, be sure he is not similarly engaged.
    Chief, DEJA Grammar Police

    Went to Eastern Marine yesterday with wheel hub in hand. Walked away with a new 60" 2200 lb axle for about $78. It was my first visit to EM, and I have to say the place is impressive. The perches are welded in place, and I was sure to get the camber correct. So, I'm back on track with the trailer build. Thanks for the good advice.


    FYI, according to Paul at Eastern Marine, they're phasing out the Reliable brand and going with Dexter -- which I believe will be a little pricier.

    When engaged in conversation with a fool, be sure he is not similarly engaged.
    Chief, DEJA Grammar Police

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