Stocker vs. Modified

Quote from "SarasGP"

Anybody? Not even Joo can say that. He installed a CB radio and antenna and they're not factory equipment.

So what do you guys think, is a mod only considered a mod if it changes the performance capablilities or do cosmetic and/or non-mechanical equipment add-ons count as mods too?

And there are a few things you can't forget!

There's the dual BCfire exstinguishers (coast guard approved), rubber mats, the mounted speaker for the cb, and the modified right front fender my proud trail damage).......and on that CB antenna flying high is that DeJA flag!

P.S. - Sara you have a modified soft top...got tape on it!

I'd say once you put a Lift bigger then a BB + anything bigger then 31's your no longer stock, again not to start rivalry, I think a 2" budget boost and 31's on a wrangler or cherokee is plenty to get all the blues (maybe even blacks If the driver cares nothing for his/her body damage) done depending on the driver and spotter, but I still consider It "stock". It all depends on the vehicle though, for a wrangler Its not hard to get 31's on with no Lift, for a XJ 31's is a hell of an accomplishment! But Just cause a vehicle is bone stock dont mean It cant handle some big boy stuff, with the right driver and spotter Im sure you can make It through most obsticles

i wouldn't split hairs that much.

to me

a modified vehicle, in terms of what we are looking for, is one that has had modifications to the suspension, or alterations the the axles (changing gears or adding lockers-not factory limited slips). motor work (intakes, headers, exhaust on an otherwise stock motor) and other stuff is technically modifying a vehicle but i don't count that for our scenario.

i don't count accessories such as bikini tops and cb's and the like.

i also think changing tire size is included with that. obviously you have to modify the suspension for 31" plus tire sizes.

for the sport tj putting 31's on is modified. obviously for a rubicon it is factory.

I agree with Paul on this one.

Adding cosmetic changes (bikini top, lights, etc) is not going to change your performance off-highway. I think suspension, axles, gearing, tires and the like that will allow the vehicle to do more than it could as a stock vehicle would be modified. For our use anyway, the term "modified" should relate to changes that will increase what it can do off-highway.

I don't have an idea though of where a line could be drawn between stock and modified vehicles. As pointed out, a Jeep with a BB and 31's and the right driver, could do the same trails, up to a point, as a more modified vehicle. It all comes down to the experience and comfort level of the driver.

So what your saying is if you put a Deja sticker on the side of your jeep it is modified? If that is your goals for modifying your jeep and then tout it as being modified I think that you may raise a few eyebrows. I would hope that people describe their vehicles accurately, especially around other 4x4 clubs.
Since we are getting people thinking I will throw this one out there. Before I joined this club I had heard the following descriptions of the club:

1. Whiners not wheelers.
2. If it's not bolt on, it doesn't exist.
3. Stocker friendly, hardcore disfavored.
4. Willing to wheel, not willing to learn to fix.

These are just a few of the perceptions that I was given when asking jeep owners on the street about the club. All of the statements above have one thing in common....they are consistent with being closed-minded. This kept me from joining the club for a long time. I eventually became friends with a couple members that changed my mind about the club and decided to become a member. I recently read the post "Future Stocker Rides" ....what a bunch of BS. One guy has problems with his Jeep on a few consecutive trail rides and a 7 page thread is started to limit 35" in tires on stocker rides. I understand that the post was started by Keith_C and it is the opinion of only one member, but c'mon folks this club is better than that. My point is that Deja members do plenty of good things to help the community and project a positive image of the club. Let's not let a few people make the club look like a bunch of whiners.
When a member states that his/her jeep is "modified" I would hope that is not because they put a speaker box in the back and a hi-lift jack on the bumper. Our jeeps are what they are, call them like you see them, don't mislead people into thinking your jeep is something that it is not. Everyone wants to think their jeep is more capable than the next jeep, however we have to be realistic. Everyone in the club has different uses for their jeeps. Some people drive them on the street, some don't. Some drive them on the beach, some on the rocks, some both. I joined the club because I have something in common with you folks....I own a jeep.
So, if you think your jeep is modified then call it modified. If you think it is stock call it stock, if you think you are a rock god, say you are a rock god, but be honest with yourself and your fellow members, because your not doin anyone any good by lying about it.

HERE HERE

Every club has their own rants. I write on 3 or 4 forums and everyone of them has had their share of "issues". It's the nature of the beast. We're no different.

A member had a suggestion and asked for others opinions. That's all. All it took was one show of arrogance to turn it into an attack unfortunately. That's something with which I'm unhappy.

Based on a standard Jeeps stock set up, I'd say:

Modified would begin at 32" tires with some form of suspension lift.

Hard Core would being at 35" tires, a locker of some sort front and back, and of course some sort of suspension lift.

These are pretty vague for a reason. An experienced driver can get a less modified vehicle up a tougher course easier than an inexperienced driver can. Because of this, the vehicles ability to tackle various obstacles will vary.

I say leave it up to the vehicle owner. Give someone three attempts to tackle an obstacle. Then strap them.

Quote from "1TonTJ"

hey john dont for get the "stupid" category. Where everyone says its stupid to go that big or extreme.

Stupid is as stupid does.

I didn't realize there was a another division after Hard Core. I guess I've been out it longer than I thought.

For lack of a more "PC" term, they'd probably be Hard Cores where the only thing not modified on the Jeep is the name plate. A rather vague description I guess.

Quote from "SarasGP"

Ok, now I have another question. Has anyone ever seen a NASCAR vehicle being driven on the highway? They're about as far from stock as you can get, yet the National Association for Stock Car Racing must consider them stock cars. So-called modifieds that are raced generally look like a cage with sheet metal like some of the rock crawlers.

Yes, I do know the history of NASCAR and that originally they WERE stock cars tuned to the max. I'm just making another inane observation.

I think it's really interesting how everyone has a different definition of stock and modified. So far I've seen very valid (and diverse) points.

The same goes for the NUROC competition. Their "Stock" is about as far from "STOCK" as you can get and keep it legal on the road.